If someone asks a question three times, you have to try to answer it.
My pal, The Dread Pirate Gryphon (his friends call him "The," for short*) has asked this question in three very similar ways. I will use the most recent phrasing.
Would the Chronicle have published an article entitled "The Blacks" that railed against their unfair over-representation in jazz music and professional sports? (And a corollary - would Prof. Munger have defended its publication on the same grounds?)
Answer to primary question: Probably not. Hard to say, because the newspaper is independent, and run by students. The editor of the Chronicle, Karen Hauptman, is herself Jewish, and was (IMHO) bending over backwards to be fair to this view. She might not have done the same for an article (mutatis mutandis) on "The Blacks." She also might have. My speculation: no.
Answer to corollary: Of course K. Grease's pussweiler friend, "Professor Munger," would have defended it on the same grounds. Yes. Absolutely. He already did that in the case of the Horowitz ad a few years ago. But so did Nan Keohane, bless her. In spite of abuse.
Unsolicited Bonus Answer: (And the reason I think "The" is such a cutie...) The reaction, among the faculty, to the Kurian piece has been negative, but not outraged. The reaction among the faculty to the Horowitz ad was outraged, and organized. Protests, meetings, ass-whuppin. Mea culpas.
What conclusion to draw? In my opinon, the Kurian piece was more of a personal assualt on Jewish people than the Horowitz ad was on African-Americans (this is obviously a subjective assessment, but I would defend it). Yet, the reaction to the Horowitz ad was much stronger than the reaction to the Kurian editorial. This means....that "The" has a point, much as I would like to deny it.
*His line, not mine. I can't take credit. But it did make me laugh.
5 comments:
Define pussweiler, please. I googled it... negatory. It's late though so maybe I'm missing something I should understand.
It's a pretty giant leap from allowing people to voice the opinion that the Jewish state of Israel opppresses Palestineans with superior weapons (much of which GIVEN by the United States, not sold) and an actual army instead of the resistance of the seperate Palestinean factions to saying people are condoning the wish of your own death.
"Roughly half of the government's external debt is owed to the US, which is its major source of economic and military aid." - CIA World Factbook http://www.cia.gov/cia/publications/factbook/geos/is.html
"I'm one of those unreasonable wackos who believes that anti-Zionism is EXACTLY equivalent to anti-Semitism"
Now... you wouldn't actually hope or want people to believe or agree with you, would you? It couldn't possibly serve the Jewish people any purpose to have the masses holding to a belief such as yourself, would there? After all, supporting Palestinean life doesn't automatically equate to supporting destruction of the Jewish people or their way of life.
It sounds like you're proving the Jewish-sympathy-capital entrepreneurist point yourself by using Holocaust and Biblical sympathies to argue a point that has really no logical basis. The thought of tolerating "Jew-bashing" being revived and tolerated on Duke as the truth of what is happening is unfound. Believing in a market place of ideas, I would like all ideas to be given the chance to be heard. What you seem to argue is that the voice that dissents from the pro-Israelis should be silenced. Whether that's what you wanted or not, it is the distinct impression that I get from your wording of your reply.
Professors at Duke, definately not all, may hold the view that Jewish are unfair oppressors. They may even be supporters of Palestineans. However, that is not justification for declaring Duke or any of its professors anti-semitic. I'm so glad to think that just by thinking Ariel Sharone to be fallible or that might does not equate to right means I'm being anti-semitic. Silly me to think that Palestineans are human beings deserving of the same comforts of peace as Israelis, English, Americans, anyone. Then again, if Jewish people acknowledged Palestinean human rights they might actually have to acknowledge Palestinean property rights and where would that leave them?
The personal attacks on the Duke faculty, the insults to the Duke student body, and the vicious lies about Duke University are what is wrong with America, not the exercise of free speech by a private newspaper (even if it is given funding by Duke does not mean it is run by Duke).
It seems to me that all those used to calling Duke overly PC are trying to suffocate Duke with their own political correctness.
-My views are completely unaffiliated with K. Grease (some would say obviously). If this is found to be a flame, I apologize and would be greatful if K. Grease deletes it if he judges it to be so. Sometimes it is hard to know where the line between healthy debate and slander is, and apologies if I overstepped the line.
MIght be of interest --
Columbia professors accused of being anti-Semite after students show a documentary... and here I thought Duke was having all the fun..
I thought "pussweiler" was rather offhandedly creative and self-evident
janet
http://newsobserver.com/news/story/1686160p-7930216c.html
"Duke officials received at least one threat of violence against the conference, but Bar-On downplayed that possibility. "There is absolutely no reason to expect violence," he said. "There never has been.""
Ok, so I'm reading up... and where is it that says Jews will be targeted in the PSM conference? If anything, as the quote above shows, pro-Israeli factions were targeting the conference with violence. I mean... if you're going to overflow the bin with a list of links thinking it'll be too much work to go through and read each, maybe you should at least make sure each one supports your stance and has a direct bearing on what you're going to say. Though apparently I fell into that trap with my Factbook example so obviously you're justified in doing it yourself.
http://www.dukenews.duke.edu/psm/qa.html#Q03
" Is it true that conference organizers have said their group will not sign a statement condemning terrorism?
According to a story in the Sept. 20 issue of the (Durham) Herald-Sun, a spokesman for the group said group members would not sign such a statement. The story may be viewed online here. Duke's student newspaper, the Chronicle, discussed this in a Sept. 14 editorial. On its conference Web site, the PSM says it 'does not support or endorse terrorism' (click here for additional information), a position that has been challenged by some critics of the group (as can be found easily through a Google search)."
Unless you're saying that an official position made by an organization shouldn't be held up as credible then I guess the public shouldn't trust any groups. I mean... Greenpeace is just a front for terrorism against medical researchers. Oh no, was that argument a straw man argument? Uh oh...
http://www.take-a-pen.org/Campus/
I like it... I really do. It's the bolding and red letters that really get to me. I think I will go write a letter right now. *hears cricket chirping being replaced by the sound of marching in step*
Oh, and freedom of speech be damned!!!
"Write Your Letter to Duke President Brodhead to keep the PSM meeting off campus!" (That's in big, blue letters at the bottom of the page. It's the subtle use of red, white, and blue that make me feel like a stance against free speech is the patriotic thing to do.)
http://home.comcast.net/~jat.action/PSM_record.htm#kill
"At OSU, the light of good overpowered the darkness of evil." Call my reading skills into question, which you've already done. It's the personal attacks that make an argument best. However, if I weren't a rabid supporter of Israel's right to push the Palestineans into the desert (which if you're going extremist then this is a view that is held by the extremist right), then I might just realize that the arguments and stories are all emotional appeals to my natural sympathies. Also the line between supporting suicide bombers and wording that declares non-support for them is blurred and used as slander against the group.
I don't have the time (but I think you do) of going through every linke. There's a general trend of silencing the speech of PSM. I guess tolerance means nothing to some people. Where has all the faith in democractic principles gone? It is your right to speak out against PSM, against what anyone says. It's also mine. Yet, from what I've read (far less than you have, admittedly), the groups and websites endorse the silencing of PSM. It's their right to endorse, but the concept of intolerance should not be lauded or viewed as patriotic.
-Once again, the cowardly, lacking in comprehension, A.
Just a note on my actual position in all of this. I am against terrorism, whether it's Israeli or Palestinean terrorism. I am for the resolution of the conflict trough a two nation state of affairs. I don't want to see Israelis pushed in to the sea nor do I want Palestineans forced in to the desert. I think the pull out by Ariel Sharone and the creation of the border is right. I think bombing of civilian buses is wrong. I also think Israel has a propensity to use too much military force and a bomb is still a bomb no matter how smart or how high up it's dropped from.
I'm sorry for flooding Mungowitz's website. Pirate, if you really want to keep arguing w/ me then that's fine. Get your own blog. As far as i can tell you don't have any posts or a blog on blogspot.
You're lack of civility is disturbing. Also, your detouring of the issue to the larger issue of Israeli versus Palestineans is not where I wanted to go in the first place. I argued for PSM and any group's right to speech, but it got twisted by you into a declaration of being an anti-semitical life form infinitely lower than pond scum with no regard for facts. Which, if it's so important to The, then fine, whatever.
Well, I'll make this short. I'm sorry, K. Grease. Whether you approve/disprove, like/dislike, amused/annoyed, at this little discussion, I did not mean for it to turn out as it did and I will no longer post any comments on here.
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